Mod Audit Log

This report was very much difficult to handle. On one hand, we do understand where the issue comes from. We’re not blind to the fact that it wasn’t just some piece of art that was made and misinterpreted. We’re aware there’s a message being sent here. The artist will be asked to avoid using Fuck it, I can’t find a way to translate this into officialese, so here’s what we’ll do. In the words of a staff member, we’ll ask xppp to “stop being an instigative ass for the whole of like, five minutes”  
However, it’s very important to note that ponybooru is an archive. Pony art does not get deleted on behalf of being offensive. We also do not believe it is actively harmful, as the character’s owner clearly protests such art existing.

@Sapphie  
You’re all stupid. My OC is literally me, so allowing it to be up on this site depicting her as a nazi makes ME look like a nazi
 
Get rid of it. We will not stand for this.

@Sapphie  
“We also do not believe it is actively harmful, as the character’s owner clearly protests such art existing.”  
this sentence contradicts itself
 
also aNaRcHo-ArChIvIsM

The staff and I are having a conversation about this topic. Our values on respecting artists and users, freedom of speech/expression and such, overlap pretty drastically here. Any decision we make moving forward will not make everyone happy, but we are trying to consider all sides. This may take an extended amount of time to have a meaningful discussion.

@MelodiousMarci  

 
Who? The twittermites? Because that would explain the sudden raidings in this thread and other posts.

@Luzion  
Deleting hate art won’t be disrespectful as it sends a message that it is wrong to do that. Leaving it up IS disrespectful towards myself and the others who have had similar pieces made of their characters, because it depicts us as people that we are not.

@Perplexia  
I fail to see how it contradicts itself, sorry.  
And yes, the goal of pb was to be a neutral archive where content wouldn’t get deleted unless good reason was provided.
 
@MelodiousMarci  
The issue here isn’t one of respect. The reason this situation is difficult to handle is specifically because we can’t resolve it without going back on some of our principles. Either we delete it, and we go back on “we’re an archive, fuck everyone who wants us to curate art” or we keep it and we go back on “users shouldn’t be dicks to each other”

@Sapphie  
This site went back on being an archive when it instituted a DNP list. The neutral thing to do is enforce it.

@Sapphie  
just… archive less?  
twibooru and ponerpics both exist, neither allow DNPs whatsoever
 
it’s not like the art will disappear into thin air the moment it’s hidden from users’ view
 
besides we already had this discussion when the site first began, why is ponybooru in an endless cycle of alienating half it’s userbase for no fucking reason?

@Anonymous #1954  
This has no barring on DNP’s. We respects artists wishes to not have their art included on our site. The debate regards the offensiveness and perceived attack on someone else’s character.
 
We are still debating these issues among the staff.

@Sapphie  
also isn’t one of the images an edit of a DNP’d artist? i’d hardly call a simple recolour with some extra lines “transformative”, and i’ve requested similar low-effort edits of my art be removed with no issues, so why the inconsistency?  
i fail to see how you “don’t believe it’s harmful” when an artist explicitly wishes to have it removed

@Perplexia  
And their existence is also exactly why deleting this image here won’t do anything. The image is already on the internet, and you can’t take that back.  
As much as this is shitty and provocative from xppp, I believe it will set a precedent of “complain loudly enough about something that offends you and try to frame it as harmful and you’ll get your way”.

@Sapphie  
this reply is not indicative of any decision, that sounds like sapphies personal stance on the matter. Just clarifying

just saw the decision that was finally made regarding one of the images  
“artistic expression of free speech and opinion”
 
ah yes the opinion of “i drew your oc as a nazi :)”
 
luzion please de-mod yourself again but this time forever

Report: Rule #11  
image: 2858016  
Action taken: None, these are duplicate reports. User MelodiousMarci is encouraged not to make duplicate reports. We are still deliberating on the original report.

@Perplexia  
Maybe we should go back on the ruling for the edit.
 
As for your second point… Not wanting something to be said about yourself does not make that thing harmful. If someone were to draw my character as a communist or nazi I’d be pissed for sure, but I have no idea how I’d be harmed by it.
 
@Luzion  

 
Oh absolutely, I shoulda made that clear. Staff is still debating what to do with the picture.
 
post-edit edit: I also really need to study now, so I’m sorry for having to dip mid-conversation. The other mods already know my stance on this.

@Sapphie  
I don’t even know if this is relevant to the conversation at hand, but xppp’s actions have been part of a rising trend of antagonistic posting here on this site lately. We’ve had them before, but this time it doesn’t seem to be settling back down. All this ruckus isn’t helping, but I don’t know if letting people continue this troll-ish behavior is the right call either as it seems like it’s begun to feed itself and grow into a larger issue.

@Luzion  
Lol you’re kidding right.
 
You’re openly allowing harassment towards me at this point, AFTER telling me to report all harassment made towards me.

so mods, where’s the log for this comment being deleted?  
is there any actual proof of sockpuppetting?

@Perplexia  
its in the mod log…. so?
 
edit ok one second

@Perplexia  
Staff with high-enough permissions (i.e. everyone above assistants) can see whether anonposts are actually anonymous, or just a user ticking that post anonymously box.  
It’ll show up in the format of $Username (#$AnonNumber, hidden)

@Luzion  
@evan555alpha  
it’d go a long way towards moderator transparency if we could have any evidence of it actually being a sockpuppet account / ban evasion, cus otherwise it just looks like the same shit people expect from derpi staff

@Perplexia  
Giving any form of “proof” would violate our privacy rules. Staff transparency will never override our privacy rules and decisions, if this causes issues then so be it. Privacy is of utmost concern to us.

Comment: https://ponybooru.org/forums/meta/topics/mod-audit-log?post_id=42881#post_42881  

 
Violation: Sock puppeting  
Action taken: deleted

@ArchiveAnon  
i figured because it occurred here in the mod log, and given the few people involved in the discussion, it’d be fairly obvious who’s sockpuppetting anyway, if indeed that is the case  
also definitely worth considering how suspicious it looks to remove anything that’s critical towards staff or their actions/behaviour
 
i obviously understand it’d be inapplicable to any other situation
 
at the very least, actually explaining precisely why it was deleted for rule #7 and showing the original content of the comment is extremely important when dealing with this kind of thing