Ponybooru Moderation Feedback

Sapphie
Rampant Bear - A courageous companion
Autist -
Chatty Kirin - A user who has reached a combined 1000 forum posts or comments.
Lil Importer Shid - Hi, Im a lil shid.
Liberty Belle - Sings the song of the unchained

Senior Moderator
Unavailable
Okay, incorporated some of the feedback I saw when browsing the thread since the last update. You can find the new WIP here.  
I also added TLDR sections for some of the rules, for clarity’s sake.
Anonymous #7B08
I got a suggestion. Remove the other blonde pones from the default filter and stop bowing Twitter retards. I will leave.
Sapphie
Rampant Bear - A courageous companion
Autist -
Chatty Kirin - A user who has reached a combined 1000 forum posts or comments.
Lil Importer Shid - Hi, Im a lil shid.
Liberty Belle - Sings the song of the unchained

Senior Moderator
Unavailable
@Anonymous #7B08  
Can I ask why it’s so important to you? (I don’t mean to sound condescending, I genuinely want to know)  
I agree on principle. Aryanne is technically perfectly tame without her cutie mark, so it would make sense to not filter her by default. (If it were just up to me, I’d remove them, so I’m on your side for this)  
However, the one and only purpose of the default filter is to give a squeaky clean first look to the site. If someone is visiting, then they’ll automatically use the default filter. Anyone else should use a different filter. The point of the default filter is to overfilter, just in case (and not to appease the twitter crowd, which hates the site regardless of what we do).  
The point is… why care so much about a feature that’s only there for complete outsiders? I genuinely would like to know, since I agree on the principle of the thing, but I don’t see it worth mentioning since it’s just the default filter  
Edit: apparently there’s legal concerns for people living in Germany, where viewing nazi imagery is illegal. And the argument could be made that Ary, even without her mark, counts nazi imagery under that law. Now while I’m not certain that this could actually cause issue for anyone, it’s better to tread on the safe side.
Datte-Before-Dawn
Liberty Belle - Sings the song of the unchained

@Sapphie  
Getting off anon. Censorship is why I left Derpibooru and you’re all sounding a lot like Derpibooru in your implementation of “hide what doesn’t look politically correct”. I understood why for pictures with Aryanne, but now you’re just tossing everyone even remotely related to Aryanne in there, and that’s how it starts. Twibooru doesn’t hide anything, they’re doing great and the only ones seething are the same Twitter cretins that have been seething ever since Ponybooru was made. Maybe you should all stop giving a shit of what something LOOKS like on the outside and worry about being an archive.
 
Censorship is a slippery slope and just because NOW you all don’t have a plan to get rid of something else behind the curtain, doesn’t mean that after this, everyone will trust you to not do it again. I thought Zizzy understood this and he keeps letting me down over and over again.
Sapphie
Rampant Bear - A courageous companion
Autist -
Chatty Kirin - A user who has reached a combined 1000 forum posts or comments.
Lil Importer Shid - Hi, Im a lil shid.
Liberty Belle - Sings the song of the unchained

Senior Moderator
Unavailable
@Datte-Before-Dawn  
>this is censorship  
It’s really not. It’s just taking the basic precautions so that the outward facing part of the site looks neat and tidy.
 
>it’s a slippery slope  
Aryanne and Luftkrieg have been on the default filter since day 1.
 
>maybe we should stop giving a fuck about external looks and focus on being an archive  
Which is exactly why no one could ever be assed to change the default filter. We’re only considering adding anything to it because the inconsistency bothered a user enough to start a conversation about it on the anniversary picture.  
No one was paying attention to whatever was on the default filter prior to this event. Users didn’t care, staff didn’t care.  
It was literally set and forgotten about until now.
 
>twibooru doesn’t hide anything  
Their default filter hides explicit and grotesque. Is that censorship now?
Anonymous #B8DB
@Sapphie  
I don’t believe hiding ratings or other broad tags is the same as hiding a character. In my opinion, the more specific the tag, the more it appears the site is attempting to classify that category as “bad”.
KillswitchEngageHyperFanatic
Liberty Belle - A bell rings once again in honor of the unchained.  (Attended our anniversary picture.)

More Than Just A Fanboy
@Sapphie  
Exactly, you mentioned something important. Precautions, not only the users with resentment to Derpibooru come here, there’s still the probablity to get new users and people uderage who only want to see happy horses.
ZizzyDizzyMC
Rampant Alicorn - The majestic steed of a blessed crusade (Masqueraded Esteem)
Fried Chicken - Attended an april fools event
Autist - How long until you notice this?  I noticed it after 4 days , but really I didn't even look till now.
Lil Shid Culture - If you see someone with a lil shid badge, you should refer to them by "Listen here you lil shid."
Liberty Belle - Sings the song of the unchained (The Bellstrike)

Administrator
Site Developer
@Anonymous #B8DB  
It has already been determined that the content that’s on the default filter is there for the safety of the users who choose to visit the site from less-than-free countries. You know the type. It was brought up as a topic of discussion that similar content should be treated as equal , even though most of those countries do not treat the content as equal.
 
It’s a safety decision on behalf of both the users and PB. It takes 3 clicks to undo. I can’t really say anything else on the matter as there’s nothing else to say.
Anonymous #B8DB
@ZizzyDizzyMC  
For the record, I don’t particularly care what’s on the default filter. It’s a filter, not an incinerator. As long as users can switch to other public filters without creating an account I’m fine with it. In response to Sapphie mentioning twibooru’s default filter, I was saying, perhaps badly, that I don’t think filtering a broad scope is equivalent to filtering a narrow scope. Less chasing whatabouts to appear neutral.
TheBridge
Boot badge - It's Bootiful
Fried Chicken - Attended an april fools event
Liberty Belle - Sings the song of the unchained

I know NOTHING
I am still reading through the argument but I do have one question: was there ever a notification for the finished collab? Considering there was one asking about submissions I suppose I could’ve missed it.
 
@Datte-Before-Dawn  
I understood why for pictures with Aryanne, but now you’re just tossing everyone even remotely related to Aryanne in there, and that’s how it starts.  
To be fair, the communist images are treated the same way, and that has been this way for a good while.
 
I can’t blame your paranoia of, as you once said, boiling the frog. Or a slow failure of the system to those who do. The invocation of “safety” and such, even in good faith, give me PTSD at times.
Barhandar
Fried Chicken - Attended an april fools event
Artist -
Liberty Belle - Sings the song of the unchained (Cheeky Breeky)

@Datte-Before-Dawn  
There are already archives in Twibooru and Ponerpics. The niche is taken. Twibooru is also doing good because twittermites keep giving it free advertisement with their meltdowns about archived artwork that they cannot take down: Twi is immune to attack due to how it’s built, Ponybooru is NOT immune to attack and can be DMCA’ed, for example.  
Therefore, what Ponybooru needs to be isn’t archive per se, it needs to be a honeypot to attract users and artists, so they get the art on site and it then gets put into actual archives.  
P.S. Putting things into a publicly, account-free changeable filter is in no way equivalent to deleting them (=hiding them from everyone but staff).
 
 
@TheBridge  
There was notification for the finished collab with a link to it, a week ago, the staff just (as expected) took it down too early :^)  
guys, keep it up for a month, nobody is going to get hurt by having a tiny strip of the announcement at the top - most people don’t even notice any of that in the first place
 
@Sapphie  
IIRC it doesn’t cover aryans, it requires specifically not showing any swastikas.  
fun fact: Russia has the same ban, only historical movies are allowed to show swastikas. But absolutely fucking nobody cares, especially since with Roskompozor y’all’re banned anyway.
 
@ZizzyDizzyMC  
@Datte-Before-Dawn  
Speaking about “putting stuff in a filter is no way equivalent to deleting it”, reversal on the stupid decision to unban furry artworks when? That alone is leagues more damning for the site than the content of default filter, turning it from “this is a PONY booru, it is for PONIES, non pony things have to go” to “hurr we’re furries so we will allow furry content, hence destroying another pony-dedicated site”.
TheBridge
Boot badge - It's Bootiful
Fried Chicken - Attended an april fools event
Liberty Belle - Sings the song of the unchained

I know NOTHING
@Barhandar  
>Therefore, what Ponybooru needs to be isn’t archive per se, it needs to be a honeypot to attract users and artists, so they get the art on site and it then gets put into actual archives.  
Isn’t any art on that is posted here probably also scooped up by the importers of the other boorus? What would the subset of users that we would attract to be “honeypoted” that wouldn’t either be uploading on Derpi or hardcore Manebooru/twitter users? Forgive me if I misunderstand you.
 
I completely agree on Ponybooru needing to fill a different niche though.
 
>Putting things into a publicly, account-free changeable filter is in no way equivalent to deleting them (=hiding them from everyone but staff).  
It can be, censorship or suppression in a way as it is hiding something from the average user. Reddit quarantines before it bans after all (those aren’t 100% equivilant either, I am just trying to defend the general concern he has). Though only if it is done unevenly with malicious, or at the very least bias, intent. After all, as was pointed out, so is all NSFW and the audience for that I imagine hasn’t been impacted.
 
>There was notification for the finished collab with a link to it, a week ago, the staff just (as expected) took it down too early :^)  
Of course, 4th of July. Yeah, they should’ve really kept that up longer (I mean they have had two notifications up before). I mean, if we are supposed to be the more community focused one then hiding our collab with no notification makes no sense!
Barhandar
Fried Chicken - Attended an april fools event
Artist -
Liberty Belle - Sings the song of the unchained (Cheeky Breeky)

Isn’t any art on that is posted here probably also scooped up by the importers of the other boorus? What would the subset of users that we would attract to be “honeypoted” that wouldn’t either be uploading on Derpi or hardcore Manebooru/twitter users? Forgive me if I misunderstand you.
The users that DNP’d on derpi (or don’t use it otherwise) because of derpi being derpi (there will be more of those in the future) as opposed to being dumb and not wanting their artwork shared and appreciated. Only art that is imported from derpi is the same on all three; for example there’s almost 9k images tagged “imported from ponybooru” on ponerpics, and though not all of them are actually ponybooru exclusives, it’s still a sizable portion of images uploaded since the porter started doing ponybooru as well.  
It can be, censorship or suppression in a way as it is hiding something from the average user.
Rename “default” filter to “COMPLETELY LEGAL” filter or some similarly unpleasant name, done
Sapphie
Rampant Bear - A courageous companion
Autist -
Chatty Kirin - A user who has reached a combined 1000 forum posts or comments.
Lil Importer Shid - Hi, Im a lil shid.
Liberty Belle - Sings the song of the unchained

Senior Moderator
Unavailable
@Barhandar  
Yeah, I know it doesn’t cover aryans, but Aryanne was specifically made to be a nazi pony. I don’t know if that argument would hold up in court, though, but I honestly don’t trust the german government not to be fucky about things like that.
 
As for furry artwork… The issue is that there’s always a very fine line. We’ve deleted purely furry stuff before, but the issue remains that sometimes, artwork is just barely pony related. If someone makes a non-canon species from the MLP universe, and it’s clearly made to fit into it (not talking “anthro moose that’s totally mlp related, I swear!”, but maybe some kind of pony-deer hybrid—afaik, deer aren’t a canon species, but they’re widely accepted). Along the same line, is a pony image no longer pony because it has a furry character in it?  
The issue we’re having is that we don’t know where to draw the line. It’s easy to say “just delete furry artwork”, but it’s much harder to distinguish furry from barely-pony-related. If you have a proposition for where to draw the line, we’re all ears, but keep in mind we want to keep pony-related things.
 
Also, we really need to make more default filters. Everything* should only become a last resort. Here I was gonna do some writing today, but I guess it’s filter time
Sapphie
Rampant Bear - A courageous companion
Autist -
Chatty Kirin - A user who has reached a combined 1000 forum posts or comments.
Lil Importer Shid - Hi, Im a lil shid.
Liberty Belle - Sings the song of the unchained

Senior Moderator
Unavailable
Okay, quickly whipped up two filters. Everything safe, which only hides things that are above the safe rating, but keeps all other forms of objectionable content. Vanilla 18+, which hides low-quality stuff, as well as commonly filtered fetishes (not sure about keeping bdsm on there, since it’s mostly a widely accepted fetish)  
If you think anything is missing, feel free to tell me.  
If you have other ideas for essential global filters, do tell me as well. I don’t think we’re ever going to bother with hyper-specific global filters.
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